Bible errors

There is a lot of commonality between the Qur’an and the Bible. Both Scriptures share many similar stories about the Prophets and also overlap in many areas of creed such as belief in one God, the existence of angels and the Day of Judgement. Muslims put all such similarity down to continuity in the messages of various Prophets whom were all sent by God Almighty. Some critics of the Qur’an offer a different explanation. They claim that the author of the Qur’an copied much of the content of the Bible, and so any similarity is down to plagiarism.

Although Muslims believe that the original Torah and Gospel given to Moses and Jesus respectively, peace be upon them, were divinely inspired and perfect, what we have today of these Scriptures is not the same as the original revelation. Indeed when we examine the modern Torah and Gospels in detail we find that there are numerous issues in the texts. One of the names of the Qur’an is Al Furqan, meaning “the Criterion between truth and falsehood”. So the Qur’an not only confirms the Scriptures that came before it, but also corrects the mistakes that have entered them:

“And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth…” [Chapter 5, verse 48]

In this article we are going to look at some examples of how the Qur’an corrects the Bible.

1. God did not grow weary after creating universe.

universe

The Bible makes the claim that God Almighty rested (and was “refreshed”) after creating the heavens and the earth:

It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed. [Exodus 31: 17]

The original Hebrew word used for “refreshed” is ‘naphash’, which means “to take breath, refresh oneself”.

According to the Qur’an, God does not display these human attributes of weakness and fatigue, for He is truly Omnipotent. Hence, He does not need rest or to refresh Himself. This false claim is corrected in the Qur’an:

And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness. [Qur’an 50:38].

Notice how the verse in the Qur’an matches, nearly word for word, the verse in the Bible. This surely must be considered a divine rebuttal.

2. Jesus is not God.

There are some ambiguous parts of the New Testament which are interpreted by Trinitarians to mean that Jesus is God:

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him. [Colossians 1:15-19]

When we examine the Bible holistically, we find that the attributes and personality of Jesus and God are so juxtaposed that they cannot be the same God. This is because Jesus lacks many of the attributes of God such as Omniscience and Omnipotence.

The common way that Trinitarians attempt to resolve this paradox is to say that when God took on flesh in the form of Jesus on earth, He had a human nature alongside a divine nature. So the person of Jesus had two natures such that he was both fully man and fully God at the same time. Therefore in becoming man, God was subject to the limitations of human beings because of the human nature of Jesus. Once Jesus was crucified, resurrected and ascended back to God, he took on a new glorified, spiritual body. Now that he has taken up his place on the throne at the right hand of God, he is free of all the limitations he had when he was here on earth.

Now there is a real problem with this explanation. The Bible explicitly states that God Almighty has an eternal and unchanging nature:

Your throne is established from of old; you are from everlasting. [Psalm 93:2]

I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. [Malachi 3:6]

So as you can see, this explanation creates more problems than it attempts to solve. You can’t have an eternal and unchanging God on the one hand, and a ‘person’ of Him, Jesus according to Christians, that is changing. If Jesus took on a dual nature, that is, a limited human nature alongside his divine nature, whilst at the same time still being God, then the implication is that in becoming man, the nature of God changed. When Jesus then ascended and took on a glorified, spiritual body, whilst still being God, then the nature of God changed once again. This conflicts with the knowledge from the Bible that God is eternal and unchanging. Here is a diagram which summarises the Christian claims and why they are a problem (click on picture to enlarge):

dawah-diagram

The Qur’an resolves these paradoxes and theological problems by portraying Jesus in the correct light:

They have certainly disbelieved who say, ”Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary” while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. [Chapter 5, verse 72]

So, the reality is that Jesus is a Messenger of God, not divine, just like the other messengers sent by God before and after him.

You can learn more about why Jesus can’t be God here.

You can learn more about Jesus in Islam here.

3. Jesus was not crucified.

Empty cross

All the writers of the New Testament unanimously state that Jesus was crucified. The Qur’an claims the exact opposite, Jesus was not crucified but rather God saved him from this grisly fate:

And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. [Chapter 4, verse 157]

The Qur’an states that those who believe that Jesus was crucified “differ about it” and are “in doubt”. In other words, the claims of the New Testament about these events surrounding Jesus are not reliable. It would be truly remarkable if the Qur’an’s claims about the reliability of the New Testament were proved to be correct, when not only is the Qur’an in direct opposition to multiple eyewitnesses of the Crucifixion (as the New Testament claims), but the Qur’an was also revealed much later than the New Testament.

Since the Crucifixion and Resurrection are the bedrock of the Christian faith, one would expect the information presented about these events in the New Testament to be in perfect harmony. When one analyses the various New Testament accounts of the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus, we find that they are filled with irreconcilable contradictions and inconsistencies. One very famous issue is known as the “Mary Magdalene Problem”, details of which can be found here.

If the writers of the New Testament can’t even get the details of this significant event right, then it casts doubt on their credibility as inspired writers, and therefore the reliability of the New Testament as a whole. Why should anything that they recorded about Jesus be accepted as a reliable account? Mankind should rely on the Qur’an as an accurate and reliable source of information about the life and teachings of Jesus, peace be upon him, because the Qur’an is free of contradictions.

4. Defending the honour and integrity of the Prophets.

falsehood

The Old Testament paints a very noble and honourable concept of Prophethood:

“…Have faith in the Lord your God and you will be upheld; have faith in his prophets and you will be successful.” [2 Chronicles 20:20]

 “Although the Lord sent prophets to the people to bring them back to him, and though they testified against them, they would not listen.” [2 Chronicles 24:19]

Unfortunately the Old Testament presents the Prophets in an extremely negative light when it narrates their stories. No sin is too great for them to commit, nor is any vice beyond their lowly desires. Just one example is the allegation that David committed adultery and murder:

One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “Isn’t this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?” Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then she went back home. The woman conceived and sent word to David, saying, “I am pregnant.”… In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. In it he wrote, “Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die.”… When Uriah’s wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. [2 Samuel 11:2-26]

This is a real problem, as it goes against the very nature and purpose of Prophethood as defined in the Bible itself.

The Qur’an defines the concept of Prophethood in very noble and honourable terms. Unlike the Bible, the Qur’an presents the Prophets in such a way that satisfies this ideal. For example, regarding David:

And We had certainly given to David and Solomon knowledge, and they said, “Praise [is due] to Allah, who has favored us over many of His believing servants.” [Chapter 27, verse 15]

And We strengthened his kingdom and gave him wisdom and discernment in speech. [Chapter 38, verse 20]

In the Qur’an there is no conflict between the purpose of Prophethood and the Prophets themselves, as they are said to be the best of mankind.

You can read more about a comparison of Prophethood in the Qur’an and Bible here.

5. Joseph’s unfulfilled dream.

Red Memory Box

Prophet Joseph had a dream about his family prostrating to him:

Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.” [Genesis 37:9]

It’s important to note that the moon in his dream represents his mother Rachel. The problem is that before Joseph’s dream is fulfilled, his mother passes away:

So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). [ Genesis 35:19]

His brothers do eventually prostrate to him near the end of his story:

When Joseph came home, they presented to him the gifts they had brought into the house, and they bowed down before him to the ground. [Genesis 43:26]

Notice that Rachel is not alive to prostrate to him. The dreams of God’s Prophets represent visions of the future that will come true. So this is a prophecy of God that is unfulfilled in the Bible.

In the Qur’an, there is no such issue as his mother is alive to bow and fulfil the dream:

And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they bowed to him in prostration. And he said, “O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality… [Chapter 12, verse 100]

6. The ruler of Egypt – King or Pharaoh?

The Bible uses the term “Pharaoh” to refer to the ruler of Egypt in the stories of Moses, Joseph and Abraham:

During the night Pharaoh summoned Moses and Aaron and said, “Up! Leave my people, you and the Israelites! Go, worship the Lord as you have requested. [Exodus 12:31]

Then Pharaoh sent and called Joseph, and they quickly brought him out of the pit. And when he had shaved himself and changed his clothes, he came in before Pharaoh. [Genesis 41:14]

So Pharaoh summoned Abram. “What have you done to me?” he said. “Why didn’t you tell me she was your wife? [Genesis 12:18]

Advances in our knowledge of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs have revealed that the word ‘Pharaoh’ is a title that originates from the Egyptian term ‘per-aa’, literally “great house”, describing the royal palace. Historically, however, “Pharaoh” only started being used as a title for the king much later in Egyptian history, during the New Kingdom period:

pharaoh

This means that the Bible gets it wrong historically, it is an anachronism to use the word “Pharaoh” as a title in reference to the Egyptian ruler in the stories of Joseph and Abraham, as the word only took on this meaning much later in history, at the time of Moses.

The Qur’an refers to the sovereign ruler of ancient Egypt throughout its chapters:

– With regard to the Egyptian ruler who was a contemporary of Joseph, the Qur’an uses the title “King”; he is never once labelled as Pharaoh.

– As for the Egyptian ruler during the time of Moses, the Qur’an repeatedly calls him “Pharaoh” and never calls him “King”.

So, the Qur’an’s usage of “Pharaoh” respects what we know historically about the changing meaning of the word. Amazingly, these historical facts were unknown at the time of the Qur’anic Revelation in the 7th century, as our knowledge of Egyptian hieroglyphs had long been lost. Knowledge of the old Egyptian hieroglyphs had been totally forgotten until they were finally deciphered in the 19th century CE with the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, over 1,000 years after the revelation of the Qur’an.

You can learn more about hieroglyphs and the historicity of the Qur’an here.

7. The moon does not emit its own light.

moon reflected light

The Bible describes the light of the sun and moon in the following verse:

God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. [Genesis 1:16]

What’s interesting is that the same Hebrew word, ‘ma’owr’, which means “light, luminary”, is used to describe the light of both the sun and moon. If this is interpreted literally then it is scientifically inaccurate, as it would indicate that the sun and the moon are similar when it comes to light. The reality is that the sun emits its own light whereas the moon reflects light from the sun, like a mirror. This is exactly how the Qur’an describes the sun and moon:

Blessed is He who has placed in the sky great stars and placed therein a [burning] lamp and luminous moon. [Qur’an 25:61]

8. Corruption of the Torah.

TorahScroll

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah, and they were witnesses thereto… [Chapter 5, verse 44]

And when the anger subsided in Moses, he took up the tablets; and in their inscription was guidance and mercy for those who are fearful of their Lord. [Chapter 7, verse 154]

The verses above show that the Qur’an speaks of the original revelation given to Moses, peace be upon him, in an extremely positive light. The original Torah is described as being “guidance”, “light” and a “mercy”, just as all divinely inspired Scriptures are. The Qur’an also confirms that the Israelites, who were entrusted with safeguarding the Torah, were responsible for corrupting it:

So woe to those who write the “scripture” with their own hands, then say, “This is from Allah ,” in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. [Chapter 2, verse 79]

This verse of the Qur’an would have sounded like a conspiracy theory to most Jews and Christians living in the 7th century. Today there is a remarkable convergence of what the Qur’an says about the Torah and what modern scholarship says. Today we see this Qur’anic verse with its historical insight vindicated by the Dead Sea scrolls and other manuscript discoveries. Today various Biblical scholars are affirming that people wrote it with their own hands and attributed it to Moses and thus to God.

Readers are invited to learn more about the corruption of the Torah here.

It is only the Qur’an, God Almighty’s last and final revelation to mankind, that has been perfectly preserved. God has promised mankind that He will protect and preserve the Qur’an:

“Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian.” [Qur’an, chapter 15, verse 9]

Readers are invited to learn more about the miraculous preservation of the Qur’an here.

9. An impossible Exodus.

Exodus

The Bible makes a claim about the number of Israelites that escaped Egypt with Moses (known as the “Exodus”):

The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Sukkoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. Many other people went up with them, and also large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds. [Exodus 12:37-38]

The Bible also states that the Israelites were important to the Egyptians because as slaves they were the workforce of Egypt:

When the king of Egypt was told that the people had fled, Pharaoh and his officials changed their minds about them and said, “What have we done? We have let the Israelites go and have lost their services!” [Exodus 14:5]

This would mean that at the Exodus, ancient Egypt suffered a catastrophic loss of most, if not all, of its labour workforce. According to the Bible there were 600,000 Israelite men that came out of Egypt. If you factor in women and children that figure would be closer to a few million. The problem is that there is absolutely no evidence of this historical event. There are no ancient Egyptian records of the sudden disappearance of millions of their people. There is also no physical evidence of settlements out in the desert where all these people and livestock encamped. From a purely practical point of view, how did Moses wake up and mobilise millions people in the middle of the night without being detected by the Egyptians?

The Qur’an’s account of this event is far more historically accurate and realistic as it says that it was actually only a small group of Israelites that escaped from Egypt:

And We inspired to Moses, “Travel by night with My servants; indeed, you will be pursued.” Then Pharaoh sent among the cities gatherers [And said], “Indeed, those are but a small band” [Chapter 26, verses 52-54]

This is in line with what modern historians say, if there was an exodus then it couldn’t have happened on the massive scale that the Bible claims.

10. Dealing in usury.

usury

The Bible describes the practice of dealing in usury as one of the worst sins:

He lends at interest and takes a profit. Will such a man live? He will not! Because he has done all these detestable things, he is to be put to death; his blood will be on his own head. [Ezekiel 18:13]

Jews are forbidden from charging interest when lending money to other Jews:

If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not treat it like a business deal; charge no interest. [Exodus 22:25]

How is it, then, that usury is permitted with non-Jews (referred to as “foreigners”):

You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a fellow Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.[Deuteronomy 23:20]

Surely a sin is a sin, regardless of who is sinned against? By comparison the Qur’an comprehensively condemns the practice of usury:

Allah destroys interest and gives increase for charities. And Allah does not like every sinning disbeliever. Indeed, those who believe and do righteous deeds and establish prayer and give zakah will have their reward with their Lord, and there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. O you who have believed, fear Allah and give up what remains [due to you] of interest, if you should be believers. And if you do not, then be informed of a war [against you] from Allah and His Messenger. But if you repent, you may have your principal – [thus] you do no wrong, nor are you wronged. [Chapter 2, verses 276-279]

Notice how the Qur’an not only declares unlawful all acts of usury going forward, it also commanded believers to give up what was owed to them in interest from past loans, with only the original sum of the loan being lawful and not a penny more. The Qur’an also criticises the Jews for practising usury when it had been forbidden for them in the original Torah, this seems to indicate that the verses which permit usury against non-Jews in the Torah have been falsified:

For wrongdoing on the part of the Jews, We made unlawful for them [certain] good foods which had been lawful to them, and for their averting from the way of Allah many [people], And [for] their taking of usury while they had been forbidden from it, and their consuming of the people’s wealth unjustly. And we have prepared for the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. [Chapter 4, verses 160-161]

What should be fresh in our minds is the recent turmoil in the financial markets which was caused by unscrupulous practices such as dealing in usury.

CONCLUSION

Any claims that the author of the Qur’an copied and plagiarised the Bible are completely without substance. When one copies they do so blindly, one does not copy and then make corrections and improvements. As we have seen, many of the corrections found in the Qur’an could not have been known by any human author as they required knowledge of the unseen. Were the Qur’an the product of a human mind, or tampered with by human hands, then it too would be filled with mistakes just like the Bible. From where, then, did the Qur’an originate? The Qur’an answers:

Your Companion [Muhammad] is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by one mighty in Power. [Chapter 53, verses 2-5]

Learn more

To learn more about the Qur’an and the Bible, please download your free copy of the book “Jesus: Man, Messenger, Messiah” from the Iera website:

Jesus: Man, Messenger, Messiah

Written by Many Prophets One Message
A CALL TO THE TRUTH

    34 Comments

  1. mrquestioner2013 June 17, 2014 at 7:50 am Reply

    “The original Hebrew word used for “refreshed” is ‘naphash’, which means “to take breath, refresh oneself”.”

    if you know arabic you would know that the word is derived from the noon faa seen root.

    if my memory is correct the arabic bible translates the hebrew word as “tannafas”

    so god is causing himself to breath. i.e., he is doing the action on himself.

    • Mustapha July 17, 2014 at 3:20 pm Reply

      You are actually correct till the part you said he breath. This basically translates to God breathing Ruh (spirit) into the womb of Mary, same way he breath Ruh (spirit) unto the lifeless form of Adam (which was in clay). So if you say for that reason God is Jesus or vice versa, then Adam is also God, which of cause he’s not. If God wants something to be, he only says be and it is.

      • mrquestioner2013 July 17, 2014 at 11:26 pm Reply

        where does the hebrew bible say that after yhwh finnished his job he took a breath ON something?

        it seems like the arabic is saying his doing a repetive action on himself because of all the hard work he did.

        in one translation i think the word was qualified with the arabic word for relax

        • manyprophetsonemessage July 18, 2014 at 9:43 am Reply

          Let’s look at the context of how the same Hebrew word is used elsewhere in the Old Testament:

          And the king, and all the people that were with him, came weary, and refreshed (‘naphash’) themselves there. [2 Samuel 16:14]

          http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H5314&t=KJV

          (that’s a very useful site by the way, its dictionaries help me tremendously in investigating the original Hebrew and Greek of the Bible).

          So it consistently carries the meaning of refeshing oneself as a result of becoming weary/fatigued.

          Also remember that the verse in the Qur’an mirrors the verse from the Old Testament, but it explicitly negates that God became tired. This seems to be a rebuttal of the Bible.

          And Allah knows best.

  2. muslim July 16, 2014 at 4:08 pm Reply

    jazakallahu khairan .. this will be the entrance to the mind of others non-muslims to call them for islam :))

    • manyprophetsonemessage July 16, 2014 at 4:40 pm Reply

      Barak Allah feek. May Allah put barakah in all our efforts to convey the message of Islam to non Muslims. Ameen.

  3. faisal waqar July 17, 2014 at 3:44 pm Reply

    Subhan ALLAH

  4. Cumar Warsame July 28, 2014 at 10:27 am Reply

    Although this seems to be very persuasive it is not the truth. Christian apologists have answered each of these points. For example Jesus’ death and resurrection is as certain as any fact of history. Denying it is like denying that Muhammad existed (Robert Spencer). Even the Qur’an aludes to it: Surah 3:55. Also on the sins of the prophets. Adam, Moses and David all sin in the Qur’an. The only one called “holy” is Jesus. This is consistent which the Word of God. There never was a torah or injil revealed to Moses of Jesus like Muslims claim about the Qur’an. Even some Muslim commentators agree that Abraham’s and Jesus’ books were not written down.

    • manyprophetsonemessage July 28, 2014 at 5:49 pm Reply

      Hi Cumar,

      Thanks for taking the time to read the article and leave feedback.

      I’ve seen the responses you refer to from Christian apologists, I’m afraid they’re just not very convincing.

      I will address each of your points separately:

      For example Jesus’ death and resurrection is as certain as any fact of history. Denying it is like denying that Muhammad existed (Robert Spencer). Even the Qur’an aludes to it: Surah 3:55.

      Firstly, regarding the Qur’an, it is very clear that Jesus was not killed but was raised up alive:

      And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them… Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise. [4:157-158]

      So, this raising up, whilst alive, is the same raising up that is mentioned in the verse you cited, 3:55:

      [Mention] when Allah said, “O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve…”

      Secondly, regarding the historicity of the Crucifixion, we have to establish whether the Gospel accounts are reliable. I would argue that they are not, for three main reasons:

      1. They were written decades after Jesus, according to Christian scholars themselves. Luke even says that he was not an eyewitness in the prologue of his Gospel. Just look at the language of the Gospels, they’re narrated in the third person. This is not how one writes when they are describing events they have witnessed first hand. Contrast this with the Qur’an which claims to be from God and is narrated in the first person, exactly what we would expect if it really were the speech of God!

      2. There is strong evidence of fabrications being inserted into the Gospels:

      http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2013/12/09/is-the-new-testament-the-preserved-word-of-god/

      3. The accounts surrounding the Crucifixion contain irreconcilable contradictions:

      http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/01/16/does-the-new-testament-contain-contradictions/

      Given these facts, it’s very reasonable to conclude that the authors of the Gospels were not eyewitnesses, but rather just writing about the rumours and stories that had been circulating about Jesus long after Jesus disappeared. If this were the case then fabrications and contradictions are exactly what we would expect, and indeed we do find, in the Gospels.

      So, the Qur’an is completely correct – those who believe that Jesus was crucified “differ about it” and are “in doubt”.

      Also on the sins of the prophets. Adam, Moses and David all sin in the Qur’an. The only one called “holy” is Jesus. This is consistent which the Word of God.

      We have to distinguish between minor sins/mistakes (which all human beings fall into, Prophets included), and the committing of the worst of major sins such as idolatry, murder, adultery etc.

      It is not befitting for the Prophets of God to commit such despicable acts as major sins, for the reasons that the article has already covered. Do you honestly believe that Solomon’s heart inclined towards idolatry (1 Kings 11:4)? Why would God choose such a corruptable heart to be His ambassador? Is God not wise and the best of planners? The Qur’an correctly defends the noble honour and character of the Prophets, whom were the best of mankind, by refuting these slanderous claims about them.

      There are other major issues that I could mention which weren’t included in the article. A good example is the alleged major sin of David, adultery. What is the punishment for this according to the Torah? A death sentence:

      If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death. [Leviticus 20:10]

      Now, if a death sentence is the default punishment for the average Israelite, then we would expect an even more severe punishment, or at the very least an equal punishment, for a Prophet of God who is more wise and should know better. Yet David is forgiven by God for merely confessing his sin:

      Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord.”
      And you forgave the guilt of my sin. [Psalm 32:5]

      So, David was spared the death penalty and got away without any punishment from God. Is God really so unjust that He has double standards when applying punishments? All of these issues in the Bible disappear when we take the Qur’an as an authority on the matter of Prophethood – as according to the Qur’an the Prophets did not commit major sins.

      • Cumar Warsame July 28, 2014 at 8:27 pm Reply

        Surah 3:55 Allah clearly says that Allah would cause Jesus to die and then raise him up. Surah 4:157 in the Arabic is not clear, anyways the Jews did not kill him it was the Romans, also the Jews would not call Jesus the Messiah and a third point, God almighty would not deceive the disciples of Jesus (also considered apostles in Islam) into believing Jesus was on the cross.

        In relation to the variations between the accounts in the four gospels, this is no more than you would expect from various eye-witnesses. At least three of the gospels were written before AD68. The early Christians died and suffered for this belief. David’s serious sin is clearly alluded to in the Qur’an. We don’t know why David did not suffer more. God was merciful and accepted his repentence.

        • manyprophetsonemessage July 29, 2014 at 8:56 pm Reply

          Surah 3:55 Allah clearly says that Allah would cause Jesus to die and then raise him up. Surah 4:157 in the Arabic is not clear

          Actually the Arabic used in 4:157-158 is crystal clear. Jesus was not killed, nor was he crucified, rather he was raised up to God. If he was raised up in a state of non-death, then he was obviously raised up alive. The only part of this verse that is ambiguous is “but it appeared to them so”, the meaning is open to interpretation (was Judas put in his place, or was it an illusion, etc). Speculation about that aside, the key point is – and the verse even repeats the point for a second time, with added emphasis – “they killed him not for sure”.

          Verse 3:55 does not mean Jesus was caused to die. The Arabic word used, the verb “mutawaf-feeka”, has a root that carries the meaning of “to exact fully or take in full”. This same word is used in other parts of the Qur’an in relation to God taking our souls from our bodies when we sleep and then returning the souls to those who He has not decreed death:

          Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. [39:42]

          Ibn Kathir, a famous commentator on the Qur’an, said the following about the verse:

          …the meaning of the verse ‘I will take you back…’ is this: Here it means that ‘I shall kill you with the death of sleep.’ In other words, I shall cause you to sleep.’ So, Allah raised Jesus (PBUH) to the heavens while he was asleep.” (Ibn Kathir 2/47)

          anyways the Jews did not kill him it was the Romans,

          According to even the Bible the Jews tried to instigate his death at the hands of the Romans, so ultimately the Jews would have been responsible. This is why the Gospel of Matthew states:

          When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” All the people answered, “His blood is on us and on our children!” [Matthew 27:24-25]

          also the Jews would not call Jesus the Messiah

          This is just sarcastic mockery on their part, much in the same way that the Romans mocked Jesus in the Bible:

          and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. “Hail, king of the Jews!” they said. [Matthew 27:29]

          and a third point, God almighty would not deceive the disciples of Jesus (also considered apostles in Islam) into believing Jesus was on the cross.

          Where does the Qur’an say that the disciples of Jesus were deceived, it only mentions his enemies who tried to kill him.

          In relation to the variations between the accounts in the four gospels, this is no more than you would expect from various eye-witnesses.

          These are not variations, but rather irreconcilable contradictions. According to your understanding, did Mary Magdalene meet Jesus when she went to the tomb after the crucifixion?

          Are the Gospel authors not inspired writers, guided by the Holy spirit, according to Christians? They can’t be, because God would not inspire contradictions. If they are not inspired, then why should anyone gamble their eternal hereafter by believing in their claims? Mankind should rely on the Qur’an as an accurate and reliable source of information about the life and teachings of Jesus because the Qur’an is free of such problems.

          The early Christians died and suffered for this belief.

          The Japanese Kamikaze pilots in World War 2 died for their belief that the emperor of Japan was a living god. People die and suffer for many different beliefs, it doesn’t necessarily mean that those beliefs are correct.

          David’s serious sin is clearly alluded to in the Qur’an. We don’t know why David did not suffer more. God was merciful and accepted his repentence.

          That’s a very Muslim response to a very Christian problem. If God is so merciful that He can forgive us when we repent, and we as Muslims believe this to be the case, then surely there was no need for the Crucifixion?

          • Cumar Warsame July 29, 2014 at 9:12 pm

            Do you believe we still have the torah and injil today which Muhammad praised so highly? What are the irreconcilable differences between the accounts of the crucifixion and resurrection? Obviously according to how you interpret surah 4:171 God did deceive people into thinking Jesus was on the cross. Internal and external evidence points to the writers of the gospels being eye-witnesses despite would some liberal scholars say. They were people who knew the geography, politics and names of people of that time. Also they wrote before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 68 and so not long after Jesus’ death on the cross around AD30. 500 to 700 years before Jesus’ death the prophet Isaiah or his disciples predicted Jesus death for the sins of others: – 53 Who has believed our message?
            To whom has the Lord revealed his powerful arm?
            2 My servant grew up in the Lord’s presence like a tender green shoot,
            like a root in dry ground.
            There was nothing beautiful or majestic about his appearance,
            nothing to attract us to him.
            3 He was despised and rejected—
            a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief.
            We turned our backs on him and looked the other way.
            He was despised, and we did not care.

            4 Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
            it was our sorrows[a] that weighed him down.
            And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God,
            a punishment for his own sins!
            5 But he was pierced for our rebellion,
            crushed for our sins.
            He was beaten so we could be whole.
            He was whipped so we could be healed.
            6 All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
            We have left God’s paths to follow our own.
            Yet the Lord laid on him
            the sins of us all.

            7 He was oppressed and treated harshly,
            yet he never said a word.
            He was led like a lamb to the slaughter.
            And as a sheep is silent before the shearers,
            he did not open his mouth.
            8 Unjustly condemned,
            he was led away.[b]
            No one cared that he died without descendants,
            that his life was cut short in midstream.[c]
            But he was struck down
            for the rebellion of my people.
            9 He had done no wrong
            and had never deceived anyone.
            But he was buried like a criminal;
            he was put in a rich man’s grave.

            10 But it was the Lord’s good plan to crush him
            and cause him grief.
            Yet when his life is made an offering for sin,
            he will have many descendants.
            He will enjoy a long life,
            and the Lord’s good plan will prosper in his hands.
            11 When he sees all that is accomplished by his anguish,
            he will be satisfied.
            And because of his experience,
            my righteous servant will make it possible
            for many to be counted righteous,
            for he will bear all their sins.
            12 I will give him the honors of a victorious soldier,
            because he exposed himself to death.
            He was counted among the rebels.
            He bore the sins of many and interceded for rebels. (NLT)

          • manyprophetsonemessage July 30, 2014 at 9:15 pm

            Do you believe we still have the torah and injil today which Muhammad praised so highly?

            This article (which is linked to in the very article you are commenting on) answers all your questions:

            http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/05/14/the-corruption-of-the-torah/

            What are the irreconcilable differences between the accounts of the crucifixion and resurrection?

            This article (which is linked to in the very article you are commenting on and I also linked you to in my first comment) gives you all the detail you need:

            http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/01/16/does-the-new-testament-contain-contradictions/

            Obviously according to how you interpret surah 4:171 God did deceive people into thinking Jesus was on the cross.

            Only those who attempted to kill him:

            And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.”… [another] was made to resemble him to them… [4:157-158]

            By the way, Paul in the Bible states that God intentionally deceives those who are wicked:

            and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. [2 Thessalonians 2:10-12]

            Internal and external evidence points to the writers of the gospels being eye-witnesses despite would some liberal scholars say. They were people who knew the geography, politics and names of people of that time. Also they wrote before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 68 and so not long after Jesus’ death on the cross around AD30.

            Even if I grant you, for the sake of argument, that the Gospels were originally penned by eye witnesses (which I disagree with, John was most likely written around 90 CE), we would still have the issue of the corruption of the New Testament:

            http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2013/12/09/is-the-new-testament-the-preserved-word-of-god/

            So, regardless of who originally wrote them and when they were written, what we have today does not match the originals. Also, we have lost the originals, whatever they were, because the oldest physical evidence we have for the New
            Testament is a portion of the Gospel of John known as “P52” which is the size of a credit card and is dated to around 120 CE, that’s nearly 100 years after Jesus.

            Since we’ve lost the originals, and since there is plenty of evidence of changes, how can you say for certain that the Crucifixion wasn’t something that was added later? At first glance this might sound far-fetched, but when you
            consider that the entire ending of Mark is a later addition (please read the above link), and this addition covers the bedrock of Christianity, the Resurrection of Jesus, then perhaps it isn’t so far-fetched after all. By comparison the Qur’an has been perfectly preserved since its revelation to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him):

            http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/01/08/the-miraculous-preservation-of-the-quran/

            500 to 700 years before Jesus’ death the prophet Isaiah or his disciples predicted Jesus death for the sins of others

            In general we as Muslims have no issue with the possibility of the Old Testament prophesying the coming of Jesus. After all, it does clearly foretell the coming of Prophet Muhammad:

            http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/06/28/muhammad-pbuh-and-madinah-in-the-bible/

            There are many parts of Isaiah 53 that don’t apply to Jesus. Just one example is sufficient:

            “He was oppressed and treated harshly, yet he never said a word.” [Isaiah 53:7]

            Jesus said many words during the Crucifixion according to the Bible:

            About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli,[a] lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”). [Matthew 27:46]

          • Cumar Warsame July 31, 2014 at 2:25 am

            To unpack this I would have to go through each point slowly one by one and then point out missing aayas and abrogation in the Qur’an. Perhaps I will or develop a WordPress site to refute it.

            At Jesus’ trial he did very little to defend himself hence Isaiah 53:7 applies.

          • manyprophetsonemessage July 31, 2014 at 12:20 pm

            But Isaiah says that “He never said a word”. Therefore just one word is sufficient to violate the prophecy. This can be taken a step further, Jesus opposed his arrest by not only words but also actions when he commanded his disciples to buy weapons and fight:

            He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. [Luke 22:36]

            These are the same swords that were used to cut off the ear of a Roman soldier when they tried to arrest Jesus…

      • Grace August 9, 2014 at 4:09 pm Reply

        God has forgiven David, for He is God of mercy and forgiveness, but David did not get away without punishment.

        The following verses are the words of God spoken to David through Prophet Nathan, after David has committed adultery and murder.

        “Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own. This is what the Lord says: ‘Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel. Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” Nathan replied, The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die. After Nathan had gone home, the Lord struck the child that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill.” (2 Sam 12:10-12)

        “On the seventh day the child died.” (2 Sam 12:18)
        As God has warned David, David’s child died.

        David’s household really did become a chaos after David sinned. His son Amnon raped his daughter Tamar. (2 Sam 13), and Absalom, another son of David, killed Amnon to revenge for Tamar (2 Sam 13)
        Absalom betrayed his own father David and tried to kill David. Also, Absalom “layed with his father’s concubines in the sight of all Israel.” (2 Sam 16:22)
        In the end, Absalom failed in the war against David, and he died at the hand of David’s man Joab (2 Sam 18:14) although David asked to not kill his son.

        All God’s warnings came true in the Bible.
        I hope that’s clear enough to prove that David did not get away without punishments for his sins.

        • manyprophetsonemessage August 9, 2014 at 6:41 pm Reply

          Thanks for taking the time to comment.

          Sometimes sin can have worldly consequences. So although God decided to bring calamity to David’s household, in no way does this take away from the fact that David was forgiven by God merely on account of repentance through confession. The key point is that David was not forgiven because of any kind of punishment, but rather repentance.

          Now Christians may try to argue that the calamity that befell David’s household foreshadows the punishment that Jesus endured on our behalf with the Crucifixion, but this is an incorrect interpretation. The evidence is the story of Jonah when God lifted the punishment of an entire nation of 120,000 because of their repentance. So there was no “sin debt” that had to be settled. God forgave them in every sense of the word, the slate was wiped clean with no involvement of blood. This is inspite of them having plenty of animals at their disposal which God could have easily asked them to sacrifice. Had this been the case, then perhaps Christians could legitimately claim it was a foreshadowing of the Crucifixion. But God didn’t ask for animal sacrifice – no blood, unconditional forgiveness, no punishment – therefore the Crucifixion has no foundation in the Bible. You can read more in my article here:

          http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/04/05/why-the-crucifixion-has-no-foundation-in-the-bible/

  5. Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 10, 2014 at 1:32 am Reply

    Several points here:
    – on Luke 22:36
    1. The context – Context
    Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
    …35And He said to them, “When I sent you out without money belt and bag and sandals, you did not lack anything, did you?” They said, “No, nothing.” 36And He said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. 37″For I tell you that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, ‘AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS’; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment.”…

    Commentary – Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges
    36. But now] This was an intimation of their totally changed relation to the world. There was no spontaneous hospitality, no peaceful acceptance, no honoured security, to be looked for now.

    he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one] Rather, lie that hath not (either purse or scrip to buy a sword with), let him, &c. Of course the expression was not meant to be taken with unintelligent literalness. It was in accordance with that kind metaphorical method of expression which our blessed Lord adopted that His words might never be forgotten. It was to warn them of days of hatred and opposition in which self-defence might become a daily necessity, though not aggression. To infer that the latter is implied has been one of the fatal errors which arise from attributing infallibility to wrong inferences from a superstitious letter-worship.

    http://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/22-36.htm

    2. On Nineveh and repentence. Sure animal sacrifices are not mentioned. This does not mean they didn’t occur. Also we believe God is free to act as he chooses and perhaps this time he didn’t require sacrifices. Niveveh was judged it was destroyed but not just then.

    There is a principle of interpretation here. The examples of God’s Word are never normative for all of us. What is normative is the teaching of the God’s Word. The teaching of God’s Word is that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins (read Hebrews 9:11-26). Most of a whole book of the Torah is on a sacrifice system and so “yes” the shedding of blood to obtain forgiveness was the normal teaching of the Word of God. Consider Leviticus 17:11 “For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life. ”

    3. Thanks Grace for posting on David’s sin. Yes David was punished and yes the Bible and the Qur’an both say he was forgiven. However as you pointed out there was a consequence to his sin. The Qur’anic reference to this event clearly reflects the Word of God. David’s sin was not some minor mistake.

    In the Qur’an this is the record; – Surah Sad 38
    Bear with what they say, and remember Our bondman David, lord of might, Lo! he was ever turning in repentance (toward Allah). (17) Lo! We subdued the hills to hymn the praises (of their Lord) with him at nightfall and sunrise, (18) And the birds assembled; all were turning unto Him. (19) We made his kingdom strong and gave him wisdom and decisive speech. (20) And hath the story of the litigants come unto thee? How they climbed the wall into the royal chamber; (21) How they burst in upon David, and he was afraid of them. They said: Be not afraid! (We are) two litigants, one of whom hath wronged the other, therefor judge aright between us; be not unjust; and show us the fair way. (22) Lo! this my brother hath ninety and nine ewes while I had one ewe; and he said: Entrust it to me, and he conquered me in speech. (23) (David) said: He hath wronged thee in demanding thine ewe in addition to his ewes, and lo! many partners oppress one another, save such as believe and do good works, and they are few. And David guessed that We had tried him, and he sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he bowed himself and fell down prostrate and repented. (24) So We forgave him that; and lo! he had access to Our presence and a happy journey’s end. (25) Pickthal.

    • manyprophetsonemessage August 11, 2014 at 8:32 am Reply

      If God doesn’t always require sacrifices, as you agree, then the Crucifixion has no foundation. If God can forgive Nineveh, with a population of 120,000, a nation that was steeped in idolatry and wickedness, so wicked that they could not “tell their right hand from their left”, if such a nation could be forgiven on the basis of merely fasting, then if God is just and fair (and He is) then I can also be forgiven on the same basis – through sincere repentance.

      With regards to Leviticus 17:11, you are completely misinterpreting the verse. The artricle I posted earlier gives the correct understanding, but I will post the relevant section here for your convenience:

      *********

      Christians attempt to legitimise their claims about blood atonement by looking to the Old Testament for support. This is the most commonly cited passage:

      “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life” [Leviticus 17:11]

      But if you read this verse in context, you will find that it refers to abstaining from eating or drinking the blood of a sacrifice, and nothing more. God commanded this prohibition in order to maintain the distinction between the Jewish people and the pagans.

      This mistake that atonement requires a blood sacrifice comes from a misreading of Leviticus where Jews are forbidden from eating blood. This can be clearly seen when one considers the passages immediately before and after:

      “I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people.” [Leviticus 17:10]

      “For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life” [Leviticus 17:11]

      Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood.” [Leviticus 17:12]

      So, the context is dietary laws, not atonement. Moreover, the passage says only that blood is used to obtain atonement; not that blood is the only means for obtaining atonement. All of the verses above could be summed up as saying, “Don’t eat blood, because blood is used in atonement rituals; therefore, don’t eat blood.”

    • mrquestioner2013 August 14, 2014 at 5:56 pm Reply

      jesus didn’t predict his death

      Jesus predicting about his DEATH is MADE UP.

      thinks that Jesus thought he was going to bring about a miraculous intervention at the Temple and was surprised when it did not happen.

      “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”

      Well the Gospels are apologetics for the crucifixion, so they do not, in themselves, have overt clues that Jesus did *not* predict his own death. They are attempts at explanations after the fact. The reasons it is thought to be unlikely that Jesus predicted his own death and resurrection (aside from the fact that most sane people do not intentionally seek out one of the most brutal and agonizing forms of execution in history) is that there was no pre-Christian expectation that the Messiah was supposed to do that. It would have made no sense within the religious or historical context of Jesus and the disciples for a Messianic aspirant to say he would die. The notion of a Messiah dying for people’s sins was a Christian redefinition of the Messiah built around a need to explain the crucifixion.

      end quote

      mark is putting words into jesus’ mouth because 40-50 years later they must explain why thier false messiah was murdered.

      paul says he preaches a cursed messiah .

      the jesus of matthew predicts that his right hand betrayer will sit on a throne and judge

      New International Version
      Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

      surely jesus didn’t know at this time that peter was going to stab him i the back, right?

      you CAN’T say ” you WILL SIT ON A THRONE AND JUDGE…” when you know that the main man is going to STAB you in the back?

      • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 15, 2014 at 10:22 am Reply

        I believe Jesus predicted his death and resurrection many times over. It took the disciples a while to realise this. They hoped he would be an earthly Messiah and save them from the Roman occupation.

        Even after he had died and rose again he appeared to them and explained what had happened . Luke 24

        Afterwards like I have pointed out Jesus’ death and resurrection became central to the teachings of the apostles. Also their lives were changed. Instead of running the took up to the authorities and suffered for it.

        • mrquestioner2013 August 15, 2014 at 10:57 am Reply

          THE claim that the DECIPLES suffered FOR thier belief in the weekend death and resurrection of jesus is OFT repeated christian EXAGGERATION which you REPEATED.

          there is NO proof that they WERE PERSECUTED because they BELIEVED in DEATH and resurrection of thier messiah.

          the evidence POINTS TO other REASONS.

          “Also their lives were changed. Instead of running the took up to the authorities and suffered for it”

          read ACTS. they seem to be LIVING on benefits from fellow converts and they sure had a JOLLY time. with all that converting you think THEIR weren’t any safety procedures ?

          WHAT HAPPEN to the women? the 3 mary’s? what kind of life were they living?

          everytime the deciples are TRIALED they cannot PINPOINT where they saw thier “saviour” , stephen can see jesus in his mind when the jewish authorities are questioning him

          i QUOTE:
          > > For example, John the Baptist preached baptism of repentance for the
          > > remission of sins. (Mark 1:4). Is that why he was killed? No—it was
          > > for criticizing Herod’s choice of wife. (Mark 6:18) Stephen was killed
          > > for calling the Sanhedrin names. (Acts 7) According to Acts, Peter was
          > > to be killed because it pleased the people. (Acts 12:1-4)
          >
          > > Polycarp was accused of being a monotheist and preaching to not
          > > sacrifice to other Gods. As I previously pointed out, Peter was killed
          > > for telling wives not to have sex with their husbands. So was Andrew.
          > > According to the first source we have, Paul was killed because Nero
          > > feared another king was developing a kingdom. And, as you pointed out,
          > > the Christians in Tacitus were killed as scapegoats, since Nero
          > > couldn’t find any other means to absolve the fire’s blame resting on
          > > Nero.
          >
          > > Or your example in the 200 word resurrection witness—James, the
          > > brother of Jesus. He was killed for breaking the law. (Presumably the
          > > Jewish law.) Not for his claim about Resurrection.
          >
          > > This is important because if they weren’t accused of Resurrection
          > > belief—recanting said belief may not have helped them! Imagine Peter
          > > telling Albinus and Agrippa, “Fine. I don’t believe Jesus was raised
          > > from the dead.” They would scratch their heads and say, “What do we
          > > care about THAT?! We are killing you because you convinced our wives
          > > to not have sex with us.” Or imagine the Christians telling Nero, “We
          > > recant the resurrection.” Nero would reply, “What do I care about
          > > THAT?! I am killing you because I need a scapegoat to avoid this
          > > pernicious rumor I started the fire.”
          >

          • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 15, 2014 at 11:06 am

            Please read and study Acts of the Apostles in the Word of God. The disciples clearly suffered right early on for their belief. They also clearly preached and taught Jesus’ death and resurrection. You may want to question whether Acts is authentic. Acts has that ring of truth about it which applies to all of the Bible. Also the human author Luke did his research to a very high standard. It is historically accurate.

            For example Acts 18:1,2 ”
            18 Then Paul left Athens and went to Corinth.[a] 2 There he became acquainted with a Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, who had recently arrived from Italy with his wife, Priscilla. They had left Italy when Claudius Caesar deported all Jews from Rome.”

            Historians tell us this event actually happened I believe around 50 AD. – http://formerthings.com/claudius_tiberias.htm

          • mrquestioner2013 August 15, 2014 at 11:35 am

            I CAN’T see your REASONS. you said,

            “The disciples clearly suffered right early on for their belief. They also clearly preached and taught Jesus’ death and resurrection.”

            stop with your LIES. no where does the text say they suffered because they BELIEVED that your god died for the weekend and then got back up. don’t lie here.

            the gospels agenda is to preach crucified and failed messiah.

            the gospels don’t tell us anything about the REASONS why the deciples were allegedly persecuted.

            “You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed {as} crucified?”

            jesus’ deciples were going around correcting the rumour about crucifixion.

            pauls jesus is a crucified god, but paul KNOWS that other jesus’ are being preached.

          • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson) August 15, 2014 at 9:23 pm

            In Acts the disciples were clearly persecuted and even killed for their belief that Jesus was the Messiah and that he died and rose again.

            Persecution Scatters the Believers

            A great wave of persecution began that day, sweeping over the church in Jerusalem; and all the believers except the apostles were scattered through the regions of Judea and Samaria. 2 (Some devout men came and buried Stephen with great mourning.) 3 But Saul was going everywhere to destroy the church. He went from house to house, dragging out both men and women to throw them into prison.

            Acts 8

            Now you blame the apostle saint Paul but the apostle saint Peter was inspired to write a whole letter to believers who were suffering for this belief!!! Please read 1 Peter.

            “6 So be truly glad.[b] There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you must endure many trials for a little while. 7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

            8 You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy. 9 The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.

            10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you. 11 They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about when he told them in advance about Christ’s suffering and his great glory afterward.

            12 They were told that their messages were not for themselves, but for you. And now this Good News has been announced to you by those who preached in the power of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. It is all so wonderful that even the angels are eagerly watching these things happen.” 1 Peter 1

            “21 For God called you to do good, even if it means suffering, just as Christ suffered[l] for you. He is your example, and you must follow in his steps.

            22 He never sinned,
            nor ever deceived anyone.[m]
            23 He did not retaliate when he was insulted,
            nor threaten revenge when he suffered.
            He left his case in the hands of God,
            who always judges fairly.
            24 He personally carried our sins
            in his body on the cross
            so that we can be dead to sin
            and live for what is right.
            By his wounds
            you are healed.
            25 Once you were like sheep
            who wandered away.
            But now you have turned to your Shepherd,
            the Guardian of your souls.” 1 Peter 2

            “18 Christ suffered[d] for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit.” 1 Peter 3:18

          • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 15, 2014 at 11:14 am

            Sorry that reference was John 11 and not John 12

      • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 15, 2014 at 10:23 am Reply

        Peter repented and after receiving the Holy Spirit at Pentecost had a renewed boldness.

    • mrquestioner2013 August 17, 2014 at 1:01 pm Reply

      “THE APOSTLES (RING LEADERS) SEEM TO BE FINE. THE APOSTLES WERE NOT SCATTERED. SAUL SURE DAMN DIDN’T FIND jesus’ alleged ressurection to be convincing lol thats why he allegedly goes BOMBING on the believers .
      paul must have infiltrated thier moment and didn’t seem to find thier arguments for the resurrection convincing .”

      i clarify

      it is possible paul was laughing at the belief that his god came back to life, he saw no evidence from it for the believers, but this DOES NOT MEAN that preaching about resurrection of a false messiah was the reason paul persecuted the believers, paul may have laughed at thier belief , but one cannot turn around and say, ” the reason why saul alledgly persecuted them was because they believed their messiah came back to life”

      • Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson August 17, 2014 at 8:36 pm Reply

        The teachings that Jesus died and rose again to deal with the sin issue is not just coming through the apostle saint Paul but also the other disciples. Paul spent considerable time with the believers in Damascus and the apostles in Jerusalem so he could get the story right. He was also taught by the great apostle Barnabas.

        Consider in 1 John 4 – 9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10 This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins. NLT

    • mrquestioner2013 August 18, 2014 at 8:52 am Reply

      “The teachings that Jesus died and rose again to deal with the sin issue is not just coming through the apostle saint Paul but also the other disciples. Paul spent considerable time with the believers in Damascus and the apostles in Jerusalem so he could get the story right. He was also taught by the great apostle Barnabas.

      Consider in 1 John 4 – 9 God showed how much he loved us by sending his one and only Son into the world so that we might have eternal life through him. 10 This is real love—not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins. NLT”

      after you seen the evidence smashed in your face , you are reduced to parroting your christian self. first of all don’t be a FOOL and try to think about what pauls resurrected god meant to paul. it sure damn wasn’t in the flesh. paul thinks he is on = level with the apostles so he is arguing that they like him saw lights and other visions, not flesh and blood eating flesh (fish).

      you are such a DUMB fool that you write ” CONSIDERATE amount of time in d mas cus ”

      YET

      quote:
      Paul goes to Jerusalem where some three years before the very god who created the universe and who had been revealed to him as his personal saviour, lard and master had been physically crucified but he can’t be bothered to walk the half mile or so to worship at the posthole or even to visit Joseph’s tomb to check out whether his entire belief system is supported by the simple fact of it being empty. Nor does he seek out jesus’s mother to discover whether his personal revelation maps to her reality or to ask her whether she still had the linen burial cloths mentioned by Luke or to enquire as to who supplied jesus’s new post-resurrection suit of clothes. Nor does he visit the room through whose solid walls jesus magically passed or climb the hill to inspect the place from which Jesus flew off into outer space etc etc. In fact, Paul was inexplicably far more uninquisitive than I would be if I happened to spend a few days holidaying in the general area where Joseph Smith was reputed to have uncovered the golden plates, a fable I know to be utterly false.

      his jesus’ IS UNLIKE the jesus in the gospels LOL

      paul did say that the version of jesus he PREACHED was being CHALLENGED

      “who bewitched you”

      “we preach a christ crucified”

      so who was preaching another christ?

  6. Cumar Warsame (Stephen Thompson) August 11, 2014 at 8:48 am Reply

    You are mutilating the text. Why weren’t they to eat or drink the blood. They weren’t to eat or drink it because it was the blood which was used to atone for sin. The Word of God in Hebrews takes up this verses and says this: – Hebrews 9 22 In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.

    We don’t know whether or not the people of Nineveh sacrificed animals. However as a principle of coming up with a Bible doctrine we rely upon the clear teaching of the Bible and not the examples in it. The Nineveh story is not normative in regard to the use of sacrifices to obtain forgiveness of sin.

    In fact the absence of any significant discussion on the use of sacrifices for sin in the Qur’an is a good reason to reject it. Since the use of sacrifices was common in the Bible and even in pagan religions the Qur’an should say more about it. The Qur’an may be a nice poem in Arabic but it is not the Word of God.

    • manyprophetsonemessage August 11, 2014 at 11:12 am Reply

      “You are mutilating the text. Why weren’t they to eat or drink the blood. They weren’t to eat or drink it because it was the blood which was used to atone for sin. The Word of God in Hebrews takes up this verses and says this: – Hebrews 9 22 In fact, according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified with blood. For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness.”

      I will re-iterate my point – no where does Lecviticus state that forgiveness is exclusive to blood sacrifice as Paul claims. It says that out of all the parts of an animal on the altar – the hair, fat, meat, blood etc – it is the blood that atones. The overall context is one of dietary laws, please read the verses before and after. You can’t just take one verse in isolation, it’s you that is mutilating the text by tearing out a verse from its original context.

      Maybe this example will clear it up for you. If I give you a plate of food containing meat and vegetables and state “it is the vegetables that provide nourishment”, I do not mean that ONLY vegetables provide nourishment. So you are simply coming to the wrong conclusion here.

      “We don’t know whether or not the people of Nineveh sacrificed animals. However as a principle of coming up with a Bible doctrine we rely upon the clear teaching of the Bible and not the examples in it. The Nineveh story is not normative in regard to the use of sacrifices to obtain forgiveness of sin.”

      You have a truly odd way of interpreting Scripture. The examples in a Scripture serve to provide the correct understanding of doctrine. If the examples conflict with your understanding of doctrine then that’s a good indication that your understanding is incorrect!

      My understanding of the text is according to the apparent meaning, not speculative. Clearly the people of Nineveh were forgiven for repenting and fasting. No animal sacrifice involved. I take my understanding from what is explicitly mentioned, not what is absent. Again your approach is very odd – there are an endless number of possible interpretations based on what is NOT mentioned in a text! All I have to do to support my case, and refute Paul’s doctrine of atonement being exclusive to blood sacrifice, is provide one clear example of a person being forgiven without the spilling of blood. I have given you 120,000 examples.

      “In fact the absence of any significant discussion on the use of sacrifices for sin in the Qur’an is a good reason to reject it. Since the use of sacrifices was common in the Bible and even in pagan religions the Qur’an should say more about it. The Qur’an may be a nice poem in Arabic but it is not the Word of God.”

      In actual fact Allah resolves all of the problems of Christian theology with regard to blood sacrifice in a single verse:

      “Their meat will not reach Allah, nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that [to] which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good.” [22:37]

      This is one of the literary miracles of the Qur’an, it is so concise and yet so comprehensive as a means of guidance. You can read more about it here:

      http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2014/04/21/how-the-quran-is-both-concise-and-comprehensive/

  7. Cumar Warsame (Stepehen Thompson August 11, 2014 at 8:49 pm Reply

    Leave alone Leviticus, which is clear. The whole Old Testament religion was based on a sacrifice system.

    On Nineveh and Bible interpretation. Just because the apostle saint Paul was converted through a bright light and a voice from heaven does not mean we should expect the same. Of foremost importance in interpreting God’s Word are the teaching passages. These are clear in God’s Word.

    The point on the Qur’an still stands, Only one aaya?!?! Even this aaya could come out of the Bible:-
    22 But Samuel replied,

    “What is more pleasing to the Lord:
    your burnt offerings and sacrifices
    or your obedience to his voice?
    Listen! Obedience is better than sacrifice, 1 Samuel 15

    Psalm 40
    In sacrifice and offering you have not delighted,
    but you have given me an open ear.[a]
    Burnt offering and sin offering
    you have not required.
    7 Then I said, “Behold, I have come;
    in the scroll of the book it is written of me:
    8 I delight to do your will, O my God;
    your law is within my heart.”
    (the point here is that obedience is more important)

  8. Fatimah Jahan July 15, 2015 at 3:01 am Reply

    The central theme of Christianity and the New Testament (NT) is the sacrificial offering of the blood of ‘Jesus Christ’ as atonement for the sins of the entire world. “The blood of ‘Jesus’ was shed in our stead and is the only means of atonement for sin.” Is this claim truly consistent with The Holy Scriptures (OT)?

    Christians claim that the absolute need for blood is rooted in the Law of Moses (the Torah). Traditionally they will often cite the book of Leviticus as proof:

    “And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among you, who consumes any blood, I will set My face against that person who consumes blood, and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul. Therefore, I say to the children of Israel, ‘No one among you shall consume blood, nor shall any stranger who sojourns among you consume blood.'” (Leviticus 17:11)

    What should immediately be apparent is that this passage is concerned first and foremost with the prohibition against consuming blood. The subject of atonement here is secondary. We are told that the reason for this prohibition is that the blood contains the life or vitality of the animal.

    Another reason is that consuming blood was a very important part of the idolatrous religious practices of the people and nations surrounding Israel. Israel was clearly instructed by The Holy One of Israel through Moses not to imitate this abhorrent pagan practice in any manner

    Since this passage is predominately concerned with the prohibition against consuming blood, we must look elsewhere in the Bible for instructions concerning atonement for sins. This passage in Leviticus will become clearer later on. The passage does say that since blood symbolizes the life of the animal, it can be used as a means of atoning for o ur sins. It does not say, however, that blood is the only means of atoning for sins. Indeed, The Holy Scriptures tell us of several other things that can be used instead of the blood of a sacrificial ram or bullock. http://www.uhcg.org/HoI/blood-not-req.html

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