Multiple question marks on paper

Many Christians maintain that Jesus, peace be upon him, and God Almighty, whom they refer to as the Son and Father respectively, are one God.

The Bible describes God as unchanging and eternal. All His attributes are eternal, as they flow from His infinite nature whose essence is also eternal:

I the Lord do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. [Malachi 3:6]

They will perish, but you will remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will change them like a robe, and they will pass away, but you are the same, and your years have no end. [Psalm 102:26-27]

Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. [James 1:17]

Your throne is established from of old; you are from everlasting. [Psalm 93:2]

Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable. [Isaiah 40:28]

Now if Jesus really is the unchanging and eternal God of the Bible then you would expect him to have identical, or at least compatible, attributes and personality compared to God. Let’s contrast Jesus and God as portrayed in the Old and New Testament:

Omniscience

Jesus:

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” [Matthew 24:36]

Job (speaking of God):

“Do you know how the clouds hang poised, those wonders of him who has perfect knowledge?” [Job 37:16]

God clearly is omniscient. He does, has, and always will, know everything. Jesus on the other hand does not have all knowledge.

Omnipotence

Jesus:

“I can of mine own self do nothing.” [John 5:30]

Jeremiah (speaking of God):

“Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you. [Jeremiah 32:17]

God clearly is omnipotent, capable of anything. Jesus on the other hand did not have any power of his own. All the miracles he performed, such as healing the sick and casting out demons, were only possible by the permission of God.

Authority

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All authority is given unto me in heaven and in earth. [Matthew 28:18]

Some translations render the above passage as “power” instead of “authority”, which is incorrect according to the original Greek. It matters because there is an important difference between the two. We learn an important thing from this passage about Jesus in relation to God – Jesus was given authority by God. Authority comes only from a higher source, it must be delegated. Authority cannot exist unless there is a higher source in which it can be based. Power, on the other hand, is altogether different. Only God has all power, He doesn’t need authority. A “power” holds control by virtue of its own strength. Unlike Jesus, there is no one above God to delegate authority down to Him.

Wisdom

Jesus:

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. [Luke 2:52]

David (in a song of praise for God):

Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite (unlimited). [Psalm 147:5]

God’s wisdom is perfect, whereas the wisdom of Jesus increased throughout his life. An important point to ponder is that if Jesus gained favour with God, whilst being God as Christians claim, then the implication is that he gained favour with himself. Obviously an absurd proposition.

Garden of Gethsemane incident

And he (Jesus) came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. [Luke 22:39-42]

We learn two important things from this passage about Jesus in relation to God:

1. Jesus acknowledged two sets of wills, his own and that of God, and they are independent of one another. If Jesus is part of God, then how can he have a different will to God? If they are one and the same God, then they would surely have the same will.

2. Jesus prayed  to God for help. This wasn’t a prayer of teaching, he wasn’t showing the disciples how to pray. He was begging God to “remove the cup”, meaning the Crucifixion. If Jesus prayed to God, whilst being part of God, then we have the paradoxical situation of God praying to Himself.

Dealing with enemies

Jesus:

But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. [Matthew 5:44-45]

God:

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.” [1 Samuel 15:2-3]

It must be noted that according to the Bible, the Amalekites in Samuel’s time were punished for what their ancestors had done over 300 years previously! We Muslims do not attribute such actions to God Almighty. I have included this reference to demonstrate just how juxtaposed the two portrayed personalities are.

Act of revenge

Jesus:

But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. [Matthew 5:39]

God:

“And thine eye shall not pity; but life shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” [Deuteronomy 19:21]

Fighting and warfare

Jesus:

“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” [Matthew 26:52]

David (in a song of praise for God):

Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. [Psalm 144:1]

Children

Jesus:

Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” [Matthew 19:14]

David on God’s blessings:

Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock. [Psalm 137:9]

As has been demonstrated, the attributes and personality of Jesus and God, according to the Bible, are so juxtaposed that they cannot be the same God.

CHRISTIAN REBUTTAL

The common way that Trinitarians attempt to resolve this paradox is to say that when God took on flesh in the form of Jesus on earth, He had a human nature alongside a divine nature. So the person of Jesus had two natures such that he was both fully man and fully God at the same time. Therefore in becoming man, God was subject to the limitations of human beings because of the human nature of Jesus. Once Jesus was crucified, resurrected and ascended back to God, he took on a new glorified, spiritual body. Now that he has taken up his place on the throne at the right hand of God, he is free of all the limitations he had when he was here on earth.

There are two main issues with this explanation. Firstly, how can two natures, divinity and humanity, which have attributes that mutually exclude each other, simultaneously exist in a single being? Attributes of divinity include Omniscience and Omnipotence. Attributes of humanity include lacking knowledge and weakness. So it is nonsensical to make the claim that a single being can posses both sets of these attributes simultaneously, because one can’t be both unlimited and limited, infinite and finite, at the same time.

Secondly, this explanation creates more problems than it attempts to solve. You can’t have an eternal and unchanging God on the one hand, and a ‘person’ of Him, Jesus according to Christians, that is changing. If Jesus took on a dual nature, that is, a limited human nature alongside his divine nature, whilst at the same time still being God, then the implication is that in becoming man, the nature of God changed. When Jesus then ascended and took on a glorified, spiritual body, whilst still being God, then the nature of God changed once again. This conflicts with the knowledge from the Bible that God is eternal and unchanging. Here is a diagram which summarises the Christian claims and why they are a problem (please click on picture to enlarge):

dawah-diagram

This theological mess is a good indication that the notion of Jesus being divine is man-made. Moreover, it was not until the year 451 CE at the Council of Chalcedon, over 400 years after Jesus, that this Trinitarian dogma became orthodoxy in the Church. If Trinitarianism is the truth, and is clearly taught in the Bible as Christians claim, then why did it take such a long time for the dogma to be formulated and agreed upon?

MONOTHEISM IN ISLAM

All of this confusion is in stark contrast to the clarity and indeed beauty of pure Islamic monotheism. This is how God Almighty, called Allah in Arabic, describes Himself in the Qur’an:

Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One,
Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
He neither begets nor is born,
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”
[Chapter 112]

CONCLUSION

Based on the abundant evidence presented from the Bible it’s reasonable to conclude that God and Jesus are not one God. God is not Jesus, and Jesus is not God, because their attributes and personality are incompatible.

Christians correctly assert that God is eternal and unchanging, but it’s time to stop equating Jesus with God and acknowledge what both the Bible and Qur’an tell us:

Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord…” [Mark 12:29]

They have certainly disbelieved who say, “Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary” while the Messiah has said, “O Children of Israel, worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord.” Indeed, he who associates others with Allah – Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. [Qur’an, chapter 5, verse 72]

Finally, I’d like to leave my Christian readers with the following thought. Why Would God reveal something that makes no sense, and indeed contradicts what was revealed previously, and then tie our salvation to believing in it? This article shows strong scriptural evidence that Jesus is a Messenger of God, not divine, just like the other messengers sent by God before and after him. This is what the Qur’an teaches, this is what Jesus himself preached in the Bible. So considering that our hereafter is at stake, are you still sure that Jesus is God?

Written by Many Prophets One Message
A CALL TO THE TRUTH

    44 Comments

  1. m0stafa1 February 16, 2014 at 3:34 pm

    Alhamdulillah

  2. youngearth February 16, 2014 at 3:37 pm

    Jesus is the one and only Son of God.

    Jn 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
    Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
    Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

    Jesus warned that False Prophets would come after him.

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 16, 2014 at 4:30 pm

      Thank you for taking the time to read the article and share your thoughts.

      It is actually not the case that Jesus, peace be upon him, is the one and only Son of God, as there are many Sons of God according to the Bible:

      The angels are Sons of God:

      “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them” [Job 1:6]

      As is Adam:

      “Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God” [Luke 3:38]

      In fact just about any pious person is a son of God:

      “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God” [Romans 8:14]

      Jesus calls all peace makers the children of God:

      “Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God” [Matthew 5:9]

      Here Jesus tells us that we all have the same father:

      Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God'” [John 20:17]

      Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that the term “Son of God” was not meant literally but rather is a metaphorical title. Such language is just the way that the people used to speak back in the days of Jesus.

      What is clear is that Jesus is a human Messenger of God, he is not divine, just like the Qur’an informs us.

      With regards to false Prophets, I assume you are referring to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). What is amazing is that the Bible actually predicted the coming of an Arabian prophet who can be none other than Muhammad:

      http://manyprophetsonemessage.com/2013/11/26/muhammad-peace-be-upon-him-in-the-bible/

  3. youngearth February 16, 2014 at 11:16 pm

    The claim of Jesus Christ is exclusive that there is no other way to the Father other than through Jesus –

    Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    The message of Jesus the Son of God is the same message of the Father who is also The LORD, The Creator of Heaven and Earth –

    Jn 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

    Jesus fulfilled all that was written through the Law and the Prophets, being the Word of the LORD and the Old Covenant. The New Testament is a completed work since AD 95 whereby the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has already revealed his plan which was concealed in ages past.

    Nothing will ever surpass the New Covenant which is found only in Jesus Christ. The entire world will soon be made subject to Jesus Christ who is now seated on the throne of heaven with his Father. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! We Christians have come to know this Truth and bear testimony to the world.

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 17, 2014 at 1:22 pm

      Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

      There is nothing exclusive to Jesus about that statement. All the Prophets of God, such as Abraham and Moses (peace be upon them) represented the way to God in their own times and for their own respective people. So, at the time of Moses, he was the way and the truth because the Israelites could only get to God through him.

      Hope that makes sense.

  4. Paulus February 17, 2014 at 7:34 am

    “This theological mess is a good indication that the notion of Jesus being divine is man-made.”

    Actually, you haven’t properly described what theologians refer to as the ‘hypostatic union’, so in reality, you have created nothing more than a straw man. Jesus is not “part of God”, ergo part of God did not change or loose divinity.

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 17, 2014 at 1:49 pm

      Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

      I’m fully aware of the hypostatic union, which deals with Jesus as an individual rather than the Trinity as a whole. Apparently Jesus on earth had two natures in one person, so he was fully human and fully divine. Basically he was a God-man. This is exactly the issue that the article addresses, if he was fully divine then he should display attributes of divnity such as omniscience and omnipotence. But he didn’t, so he is not fully divine. You can’t have it both ways, he can’t be fully human (finite) and fully God (infinite) at the same time. At best you can say that he was partially human and partially divine.

      But then that creates other problems because according to Trinitarian Chistians he is part of God in a Trinity – three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) in one God. You seem to have a hang-up over the word ‘part’, but this is just semantics. It doesn’t really matter if you say Jesus is ‘part’ of God in a Trinity, or a ‘person’ of God in a Trinity. The point is that you believe that Jesus is God. So if Jesus changes, then God has changed. This contradicts the Old Testament concept of God being eternal and unchanging. If you still insist that Jesus’ metamorphosis does not impact God as a whole, then that means Jesus is a completely separate and independent God. In which case you worship multiple gods, not one, which is polytheism.

      This situation is kind of like a pot of water which is leaking because it has lots of holes. You only have two hands to try and plug the holes, and you frantically move your hands from one hole to another in an attempt to stop the leaks. In the end you’re not solving the problem, just shifting it to somewhere else. So I reiterate, this theological mess is a good indication that the divinity of Jesus is a man-made.

      Muslims don’t have to worry about the nature of God, because our theology is clear and pure:

      Say, “He is Allah, [who is] One,
      Allah, the Eternal Refuge.
      He neither begets nor is born,
      Nor is there to Him any equivalent.”

      • Paulus February 18, 2014 at 8:15 am

        “if he was fully divine then he should display attributes of divinity such as omniscience and omnipotence”

        He did, or he is described as such by the NT authors. You have simply picked up on passages that relate to aspects his full humanity. Why do you think that theologians have designated terms such as hypostatic union, or the kenotic theory?
        “So if Jesus changes, then God has changed.”

        the divine logos did not change vis-à-vis His divinity, so your point is moot! I suggest you look into incarnational theology to get a grasp on what Christians actually believe re: the incarnation. If you think that divinity tabernacling in human flesh is a ‘change in God’s being’, then you better be prepared to defend your eternal Quranic theory.
        “If you still insist that Jesus’ metamorphosis does not impact God as a whole, then that means Jesus is a completely separate and independent God”
        That logic does not follow. Your theological mess seems to be born out of ignorance or accurate representation of Christian thought, moreso than from the theology proper.

        • manyprophetsonemessage February 18, 2014 at 1:18 pm

          Your proposition is no different to asking me to accept that a person can be fully healthy and fully diseased simultaneously. Like divinity and humanity, they are mutually exclusive concepts. You can be 50% healthy and 50% diseased, but not 100% healthy and 100% diseased. No matter what fancy terms are coined to try and rationalise this paradox, such as “Hypostatic Union” or “kenotic theory”, it is irreconcilable.

          We haven’t even considered the historical aspect of all this. From the eariest Christian history the Church has wrestled over the nature of Jesus, both as an individual and in his relation to God. There were many different views about Jesus, including some that held he is not God. No doubt you will dismiss such beliefs as heretical, but it is anachronistic to apply terms like orthodoxy to any of the sects of Christianity in the early church, because there were only heresies. Trinitarianism just happened to be the ‘winning’ heresy because it was favoured by the Roman empire. So the fact that Trinitarianism became ‘orthodoxy’ is only an accident of history, had the Roman empire favoured Arianism, for example, then you could very well be anti-Trinitarian today! It took many centuries, much boodshed and numerous councils to define the Trinitarian concept of God as it is believed in today.

      • Paulus February 18, 2014 at 11:10 pm

        Actually, you accept that the eternal attribute of Speech can ‘become’ a book, without this effecting change in the being of Allah, so your continual attack on the incarnation, whereby, the second member of the Godhead ‘tabernacled’ in human flesh, as some sort of change in the being of the Triune God, is utterly illogical. Why keep pressing the point?

        As for the history, sounds like you’ve been reading Erhman. Again, your attack on Christian history would be problematic had you applied the same standard to the Islam. The early assassinations, the controlled text, political and military power, etc, would all make for interesting historical examination if you were to apply the same historical anachronisms to your own past.

        • manyprophetsonemessage February 19, 2014 at 12:56 pm

          You’re honestly still insisting that the speech of Allah being recorded as words in a book, or being recited by Muslims, is logically equivalent to the Word of God becoming a walking, talking and thinking fleshly being, one with attributes and a personality that are different to God, one that is worshipped as God? We don’t say that the speech of God is God, but you say that the Word IS God. Moreover, if there is any change to the words of the Qur’an, for example a Muslim doesn’t recite it correctly, then it ceases being the words of Allah. The same can’t be said of Jesus, because as a human he had different attributes and personality to God, but you still insist he IS God.

          Your position is self-defeating, because you’ve now turned the Old Testament, which contains the speech of God (“Let there be light…”), and New Testament, which contains the speech of Jesus (“Why have you forsaken me…”), into gods.

          Regarding your mention of Islamic history, even if we assume that your claims are true for the sake of argument, this is the fallacy of the ‘red herring’. What does Islamic history have to do with our discussion on the Christian creed of the Trinity? Islam came about several hundred years after the creed of the Trinity at the Nicene Council, it’s completely irrelevant! This is also the fallacy of ‘tu quoque’ – it seems that you realise you are in a predicament and so you are attacking Islam out of desperation. You are the embodiment of the proverb “Attack is the best form of defense”, but that doesn’t mean you are the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz ;-).

    • mrquestioner2013 April 6, 2014 at 12:37 pm

      “the divine logos did not change vis-à-vis His divinity, so your point is moot! I suggest you look into incarnational theology to get a grasp on what Christians actually believe re: the incarnation.”

      the father DIDN’T incarnate
      can you tell me what the DIFFERENCE was between the incarnated son who NEEDED flesh/body and the father who DID not incarnate and NEED flesh/body/location?

      baby jesus had divine logos in him, right?
      divine logos knew all languages?
      if yes, then why didn’t it request in hebrew, through baby jesus’ mouth ,food ,when it was hungry? why did it PRETEND to cry?

      was god UNABLE to communicate through ANY LANGUAGE because he was IN DISCONNECT mode due to EXISTING in time and space?

      since u believe that jesus IS NOT trinity/god, then how much god incarnated?

      remember

      jesus is not trinity/god
      father is not trinity/god
      ghost is not trinity/god

  5. Paulus February 17, 2014 at 7:38 am

    Also, Islamic unitarianism is not devoid of theological problems. For example, how and why did the ‘eternal speech attribute of Allah’ become created in the al-Quran. By your logic, I could reasonable use your argument and suggest that a “part of Allah” became created and thus Allah lost divinity (to some degree)

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 17, 2014 at 1:50 pm

      That would be unreasonable, because you’re confusing two completely different concepts.

      The Qur’an is the eternal, uncreated speech of Allah. There are a number of reasons why it is a false equivalence to say that Jesus is the eternal Word made flesh in the same way that the Quran is the eternal speech made book:

      1. The Qur’an is an expression of God’s knowledge, but we don’t say that the Qur’an itself is God. Nor do we worship it as such. Christians, however, say that Jesus is God and is worshipped as such.

      2. The Qur’an is God’s speech. Speech itself does not have a mind of its own, nor a separate will from God. Jesus had a mind of his own and also a different will.

      3. It would nonsensical for me to make a statement like “God’s speech is less great than God”, because the entity of speech (words, sounds etc) is not a comparable to the entity of the speaker (the one who generates the words, sounds). I might compare myself to you or any other human being, just as I might compare my speech to your speech, because these are similar entities. But I wouldn’t compare myself to my speech, or myself to your speech. And yet Jesus, the Word, compares himself to God Almighty many times (e.g. Jesus saying “The Father is greater than I”).

      • Paulus February 18, 2014 at 8:19 am

        I wasn’t claiming the concepts were the same, only the logic. Your response doesn’t impede on my point. Your argument necessarily becomes problematic for Islamic theology.

        • manyprophetsonemessage February 18, 2014 at 1:07 pm

          There is no logical link between Jesus as the Word made flesh and the speech of Allah made book. You believe that a book, or more specifically a recitation, is logically equivalent to a walking, talking and thinking being that has a will, personality and attributes of their own? Please elaborate on how the three points I posted are incorrect. Simply dismissing them is not a refutation, at the moment it seems like you just want to have the last word.

      • Paulus February 18, 2014 at 11:16 pm

        No, I believe that the logic you use to reject the incarnation, if applied consistently, would lead you to reject the al-Quraan. The issue has to do with change in the God’s divine being. You have claimed that the incarnation breaches this biblical teaching, that God cannot change, even though a) theologians have carefully laboured to accurately portray and systematise the biblical content, rejecting, by and large, that God has or will ever change in his being, and b) you yourself believe that an eternal attribute of Allah has and is in a created book.

        I am not claiming the two concepts are mutually cohesive, simply that the crux of your argument relies upon a) a straw man since you ignore what Christians ACTUALLY believe, and b) inconsistency.

        Regards. I have no more time for this at present. Have the last word as you say.

        • manyprophetsonemessage February 19, 2014 at 12:57 pm

          If anyone subscribes to the following Trinitarian timeline, then I genuinely can’t see how the nature of God is static:

          1. Throughout BCE, God was not man.
          2. In 0 CE God became man.
          3. In 33 CE God ceased being man.

          I appreciate the discussion we’ve had so far Paulus, thanks for your time.

      • Ismail February 19, 2014 at 8:16 am

        Mr. Paulus , The Quran is from the Speech of God and God’s speech is not created. At the same time, God’s speech is not a different God or a different person from God.

        This concept can be understood even from the Bible :
        “And God SAID, Let there be light” (Genesis 1:3)
        Was this speech of God created ? And are not you able to read this God’s speech in a BOOK called the Bible ?

        Additionally, assuming the ‘word of God’ to be a distinct person from God creates more problems than solutions.
        According to the NT, God is said to have spoken the following words to Jesus when he was baptized:

        “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him” (Matthew 17:5)

        If Jesus was the “word of God in flesh on earth”, how did God speak these “words” to Jesus ?
        Is there more than one person who is the “word of God”, in addition to Jesus ?

  6. Adeel February 18, 2014 at 2:28 am

    Ma’sha’Allah great job done.

    These are the very reasons why the majority of the people who are embracing Islam throughout the world are indeed Christians.

    May The One and Only Allah keep guiding those who truly love Him and don’t associate any partners of any form to Him.

  7. chongzhuolin0818 February 18, 2014 at 7:15 am

    5 o Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,1 6 p who, though he was in q the form of God, did not count equality with God r a thing to be grasped, 7 but s made himself nothing, taking the form of a t servant,1 u being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by v becoming obedient to the point of death, w even death on a cross. 9 x Therefore y God has z highly exalted him and bestowed on him a the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus b every knee should bow, c in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and d every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is e Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    You have definitely miss this. It is not that Jesus has no the elements of God, but He gave it up temporary to achieve God’s purpose for human salvation.

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 18, 2014 at 1:26 pm

      “You have definitely miss this. It is not that Jesus has no the elements of God, but He gave it up temporary to achieve God’s purpose for human salvation.”

      In other words, for those that hold that Jesus is God, the nature of God temporarily changed. But God does not change as per the Old Testament definition. This is the very heart of the issue that my article highlghts.

      • Paulus February 18, 2014 at 11:18 pm

        Please, read a commentary on the text in question. As I state before, incarnational theology does not teach that the Being or Nature of God changed.

        • manyprophetsonemessage February 19, 2014 at 2:45 pm

          I have no doubt that the commentary will say that God did not change. This is missing the point though, as what we have to appreciate is that what is taught as a creed can be at odds with scripture. Jehova Witnesses teach that Jesus is not God, but you would no doubt disagree with this teaching and cite the following verses of John as scriptural proof:

          “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”

          So, although Trinitarians may claim or teach that God did not change, this is at odds with the very scripture they use as proof texts. We will now analyse John in more detail to prove that God did change:

          The original Greek for the word “became” is ‘ginomai’. Greek lexicons define this as:

          to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

          Moreover, the same word is used in Matthew 4:3:

          “And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made (‘ginomai’) bread.”

          Clearly, to go from stones to bread implies a change in nature or being. So I am not being inconsistent when I say that the Word becoming flesh is a change in nature. According to Trinitarians the Word is God, and since the Word changed, therefore God has changed.

  8. chongzhuolin0818 February 18, 2014 at 7:21 am

    That chart there is quite interesting but it misses a few points. First of all,it reduces The Infinite God to something finite. Infinite means that He will not become lesser if He is to incarnate in the person of Jesus, nor will He become greater than He is when Jesus has ascended as there is no one greater than him. Second,it reduces The Almighty God to fit into humans’ finite mind. It attempts to shrink God, whose greatness n goodness is beyond our understanding n comprehension, into human concept. That means, this chart views God from our lowly human perspective in order for us to understand who He is. Hence,what u know then is not The Real God Himself but ur image of Him, a.k.a. IDOLS. In view of this, The Omnipotent God, in attempt of revealing Himself to mankind, knowing that their finite n sinful mind cannot capture fully His infinite goodness, chose to come in the person of Jesus Christ, to demonstrate in human concept WHO IS GOD LIKE. N this initiative is top-down, as oppose to the chart down-up approach. Jesus Christ then is called Son of God not because He is the product of God n human intercourse, as some put it, but because He is the Image of God. Like father like son, u see. It is not coincidence that He is the only person without sin even in your Holy Book. He had to be sinless to be the scape goat of our sins, to replace us on the cross so that we are not damned for eternity. You practice of animal sacrifice during hajj in memory of Abraham is a vivid picture of God’s grace to human kind. He provides us a true way to come back to Him n to know Him, through the person of Jesus Christ.

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 18, 2014 at 1:25 pm

      Firstly I like that you are analysing this from a mathematical point of view, it’s an interesting approach to the problem.

      I think what you are saying about the infinite and finite is fine when dealing in abstract mathematics. But unfortunately it doesn’t hold true when we apply it in real world terms. I can say this about the Trinitarian model:

      – Throughout the time period BCE (i.e. before birth of Jesus) God was fully divine.
      – In the year 0 CE (birth of Jesus) He took on flesh.
      – In the year 33 CE (Crucifixion) He returned to His nature as it was throughout BCE.

      I don’t see how this Trinitarian timeline of God, which demonstrates a different nature of God at different points in hstory, can be reconciled with the concept of an eternal and unchanging God in the Old Testament.

  9. blackCaeser177 February 18, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    Mahsalah Akhi…great article…and your curt and precise responses are to be commended…Jazak Allah khayran….’that awful paradox of a God on a cross’ is inconceivable to bare bone logic…Islam acknowledges the omnipotence and true power…nothing is remotely comparable to God….

    • manyprophetsonemessage February 18, 2014 at 3:37 pm

      Barak Allah feek akhi. We need to empower Muslims with this knowledge so that they have the confidence to give dawah to Christians insha’Allah.

  10. vcoupe20 February 20, 2014 at 8:53 am

    Salaam Alaikum.
    Qur’an 18:54-57 is enough for them!

  11. Suhail Paliath April 27, 2014 at 10:33 am

    Masha Allah brother.
    Keep up the good work. Jazaakum Allahu Khayran.
    Assalamualaikum.

    • manyprophetsonemessage April 27, 2014 at 12:16 pm

      Jazak Allah khayr for your kind words. May Allah make this a benefit for dawah, ameen.

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  13. manyprophetsonemessage July 12, 2014 at 7:31 am

    Thank you for your thoughts. My hope is that the blog will inspire people to read the Qur’an, you can find an excellent English translation here:

    http://manyprophetsonemessage.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/quran-saheeh-international-english-translation.pdf

    I’d be interested to know your thoughts about the Qur’an. If you’re a Christian you might be surprised to learn that the Qur’an mentions Jesus more times by name than Muhammad, peace be upon them both.

  14. Sinner August 23, 2014 at 4:47 am

    What if I believe in islam or Christianity ??
    What u think of obtaining eternal life, without joyfully & peacefully leaving on this earth under the sun ( Enjoy your days under the sun)

    Do you think King David & Prophet Mohammad enters external life or not ( Since both have murdered humans & human killing is one of the greatest sin)

    What is the objective of GOD or Allah – if some one not accepted both but live a holy life & what if I accept the allah or GOD but still sinned ( No one on this earth is without sin or wrong doing in his entire life)

    • manyprophetsonemessage August 23, 2014 at 9:55 am

      What if I believe in islam or Christianity ??

      I think you meant to say what if you don’t believe. The Qur’an is very clear that God has chosen Islam as the way of life for humanity:

      This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. [5:3]

      Those who hear of Islam and reject it will be among the losers of the Hereafter:

      And whoever desires other than Islam as religion – never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers. [3:85]

      What u think of obtaining eternal life, without joyfully & peacefully leaving on this earth under the sun ( Enjoy your days under the sun)

      I would ask for the evidence that this is the way of life that God wants from us. If no strong evidence can be provided then I won’t gamble my soul by living my life according to human speculation and conjecture. The Qur’an is the preserved and perfect word of God so I have no doubts about it:

      This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah [2:2]

      Do you think King David & Prophet Mohammad enters external life or not ( Since both have murdered humans & human killing is one of the greatest sin)

      These were the best of human beings to ever walk the face of the earth so they will attain the highest abode in Paradise in the Hereafter. We have to distinguish between just killing and unjust killing. The Prophets did not ever commit unjust killing. Unjust killing is indeed one of the greatest sins as Islam teaches.

      What is the objective of GOD or Allah – if some one not accepted both but live a holy life & what if I accept the allah or GOD but still sinned ( No one on this earth is without sin or wrong doing in his entire life)

      We were created to worship God:

      And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. [51:56]

      As part of this we have to submit to God by accepting His messengers and following His way of life, not our own desires. Whilst we are on earth we are being tested:

      Do the people think that they will be left to say, “We believe” and they will not be tried? But We have certainly tried those before them, and Allah will surely make evident those who are truthful, and He will surely make evident the liars. [29:2-3]

      After we die we will all be brought back to life on the Day of Judgement when God will judge us according to what we believed and the actions we did in this life:

      So by your Lord, We will surely question them all about what they used to do. [15:92-93]

      Those who lived their lives according to Islam will be in Paradise in the Hereafter:

      But they who believe and do righteous deeds – those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally. [2:82]

      But those who were evil will be in the Hellfire:

      Do they not know that whoever opposes Allah and His Messenger – that for him is the fire of Hell, wherein he will abide eternally? That is the great disgrace. [9:63]

      So what does God expect from us? Certainly not perfection, unlike Christianity God expects us to fall short, make mistakes and sin because we are an imperfect creation (only God is perfect). God will test and judge each of us individually according to our capabilities, knowledge, limitations etc:

      Allah does not charge a soul except [with that within] its capacity. It will have [the consequence of] what [good] it has gained, and it will bear [the consequence of] what [evil] it has earned. “Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred… [2:286]

      When we do fall short, God will forgive us if we sincerely repent and ask His forgiveness because He is the Most Compassionate and Most Merciful:

      Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.” [39:53]

      Finally, to enter the fold of Islam and submit to God one has to believe in and say the following words:

      “I bear witness that there is nothing worthy of worship except Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Messenger”.

  15. A November 27, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    The name of God in Genesis is Elohim, which is a plural form. In some instances this plural form of Elohim was used when talking about “gods”. Jews (confused at why the plural form of God would be used) say that the reason is because “God dwells in everyone”. There are hints of the trinity in the old testament. Besides that, the Bible says in Colossians 2:9:

    “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”

    Youngs Literals Translation translates it:

    “because in him doth tabernacle all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”

    Which is interesting because Jews in the old testament use to turn towards the Temple(tabernacle) to pray. This Temple represented the Messiah to come (Jesus). The Temple was the place where the Spirit of God would come down and dwell. Thus, them turning towards the Temple was a symbol of them facing God in prayer. In the new testament we now know that Jesus body IS the tabernacle. Now we turn towards Him in prayer.

    Besides this, WE are now given the Holy Spirit so that we, too, may become “sons of God” through THE Son of God.

    As for Jesus dying on the Cross: Peter REBUKED Jesus when He said He would suffer and be put to death in Mark 8:31-33:

    “And He(Jesus) began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And He was stating the matter plainly. And Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him. But turning around and seeing His(Jesus) disciples, He(Jesus) rebuked Peter and said, “GET BEHIND ME, SATATN; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”

    Muslims are like Peter in the fact that they claim “God would never do that” but in the Bible it clearly says only SATAN makes those claims. He twists scripture, which he did from the beginning to Eve in the garden. Satan always copies God’s work and perverts it. The Bible even WARNED against this in Galatians 1:8-9:

    “But even if we, or an ANGEL FROM HEAVEN, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if ANY MAN is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!”

    Muslims believe that the angel Gabriel gave Muhammad these revelations, which CLEARLY advocate what satan himself tried to advocate through Peter. But God warned us through His Word to be CAREFUL of these claims. As Jesus stated false prophets would come and through many “signs and wonders” (which, there are said to be some in the Quran) would deceive even the very ELECT if “it were possible”.

    Matthew 24:24:

    “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.”

    Be warned! Turn to Jesus Christ who IS the Son of God!

    • Many Prophets One Message November 27, 2015 at 5:12 pm

      Let’s cut to the chase. Can you show me a clear place in scripture that explains the Trinity as it is believed in today by Christians:

      “God is one being in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are all co-equal and co-eternal”

      The Trinity is a central doctrine in Christianity, so it shouldn’t be hard to produce the evidence ;-).

      • A November 27, 2015 at 8:06 pm

        I would like to hear your comments on the rest of the post above.

        1)The trinity is hinted at in the old and new testament. It has always seemed to have been so and is so now. There are plenty of verses concerning the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Most of the verses where Jesus makes claims to the evil Pharisees of Himself being God are refuted by those who don’t believe. The way Jesus acted towards those evil, hard-hearted Pharisees fits perfectly with how the Bible says God deals with people:

        Pslm. 18:26:

        “to the pure you show yourself pure, but to the devious you show yourself shrewd”

        In the wisdom of God, God dealt with the Pharisees the way they ought to be dealt with. God hates pride and will not condescend to prideful men. Thus, He gave them the answers they were looking for without them really understanding. Jesus even tells us this is why He speaks to the people in such a way:

        Matthew 13:14 Jesus said:

        “In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”

        2) Concerning the prophet Jonah, yes the people did repent (quite mightily I might add) but this was a simple fact. When God spoke a word He usually gave conditions and opportunities for people to repent BEFORE His judgement was to come. When God told Jonah to speak to the people, they were only doing what God had already stated by His word. They were keeping His word, which is all that God wanted to begin with.

        Now, let me take this a step further and say that God always wishes for us to obey His word – written or otherwise. That’s why when Jesus came He is called the “Word of God” in 1 John. Jesus IS a prophet, you are right. However, as a prophet He was the ONLY one in the Bible who was said to obey God PERFECTLY on all points of the law. Thus showing Himself more than a prophet. Besides that He claimed to forgive sins (which no other prophet claimed before Him). He did miracles, which no man was reported to do since the “beginning of time” (John 9:32). He never sinned (John 8:46). Jesus IS the Word of God becoming flesh. Now we know that we obey God’s Word – Jesus.

        Jesus also said the “sign of the prophet Jonah” will be the only sign given.

        3) How do you rectify the fact that the Bible speaks against what sounds like the religion of islam.

        John 16:2 “…an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.”

        “Killing Verses in the Quran”

        -Surah 2:191-193/ 2:244/ 2:216/ 4:74 & 76/ 4:89/ 8:15 & 39 & 59-60, etc. There are MANY.

        The next verse Jesus goes on to say (John 16:3-4)

        “These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them.”

        Jesus says those who kill will THINK they know God but – in fact – don’t. (Now check out what I said about these things in my post above ^^^).

        • Many Prophets One Message November 27, 2015 at 8:31 pm

          With all due respect, I didn’t request hints of the Trinity. If a hint is all that is needed for proof of your beliefs then anyone can make up any belief they want in the Bible, all they have to find is a vague enough verse to support their belief.

          I politely request once again, please can you show me a clear place in scripture that explains the Trinity as it is believed in today by Christians:

          “God is one being in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are all co-equal and co-eternal”

          The Trinity is a central doctrine in Christianity, so it shouldn’t be hard to produce the evidence.

          • A November 28, 2015 at 2:26 pm

            With all due respect to you, the Bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God and the Father (Almighty) is God. It’s not in the same verse, yet why does it have to be? I can’t demand God to put things where I like them. I really believe God made it this way to confuse the disbelievers. True believers will search the scriptures prayerfully and can see for themselves.

            Besides this, let me ask you this: where in the Quran does Jesus say “I’m not God” in that exact phrase? It’s a central doctrine of Islam so it shouldn’t be hard to find. 😉

            Further more I see in Surah 10:94 it tells Muslims to judge the Quran BY the Bible (not the other way around):

            If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. (Surah 10 ayah 94)

          • Many Prophets One Message November 28, 2015 at 2:45 pm

            Please re-read what I wrote again carefully. I didn’t ask for specific wording, just a clear statement.

            The Qur’an is a clear book of guidance. A Muslim’s beliefs derive from revelation, not speculation. Here is the equivalent of what I’m requesting from you in the Qur’an:

            O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not “Trinity”” desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (4:171)

            I politely request once again, please can you show me a clear place in scripture that explains the Trinity as it is believed in today by Christians:

            “God is one being in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are all co-equal and co-eternal”

            The Trinity is a central doctrine in Christianity, so it shouldn’t be hard to produce the evidence. My beliefs are backed up by scripture, are yours?

          • A November 28, 2015 at 6:28 pm

            And I politely request you to answer my question: where in the Quran does Jesus say “I’m not God” in that exact phrase (or even a “close statement” from Jesus)?

            Muhammad puts the words in Jesus mouth. Jesus never (to my knowledge) says that “I’m not God” in the Quran. Sure, Muhammad (or “Allah”) say’s it ABOUT Him but never does Jesus say it in the Quran. Furthermore, the Quran contradicts itself in surah (10:94).

            Your argument against the trinity can easily be applied to the Quran about Jesus. In the Bible, the concept of the trinity is throughout. In the Quran, the concept of Jesus “not being God” can be found. Yet, Jesus never utters the words from His mouth (even in the Quran). So we are back to square one on the issue. It’s a bad argument and a double standard that’s being applied.

            Also, the trinity concept follows the way God works by “apparent contradictions” e.g “the first shall be last”; “the least shall be greatest”; “the greatest among you will be the servant”; “My power is perfected in weakness”; “three in One”, etc. The Bible is filled with these “apparent contradictions” which is how God works.

          • Many Prophets One Message November 28, 2015 at 7:10 pm

            I have been able to establish from the Qur’an, in a single clear verse, that Jesus is a messenger of God and that God is not a Trinity. *Who* makes the statement is irrelevant, what matters is that the beliefs of a Muslim can be found in scripture – we do not speculate about God.

            According to you, the doctrine of the Trinity is found throughout the Bible. Yet when challenged to provide a clear statement in support of the doctrine, you resort to playing games in order to avoid producing evidence. You seem to love quoting the Bible, *except* when it comes to proving the Trinity :-). This betrays the teachings of the very book you profess to follow: “always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have” (1 Peter 3:15). There is in fact no longer a need for you to answer, because your silence is deafening.

            The simple fact is that nowhere in the Bible is there any explicit mention of a Trinitarian formula, the concept that God is three persons that are co-equal and co-eternal. For the open-minded of my readers, please refer to the following articles for information about where the unbiblical doctrine of the Trinity originated:

            http://www.manyprophetsonemessage.com/2015/08/20/tawheed-versus-trinity-which-is-the-true-concept-of-god-part-1/

            http://www.manyprophetsonemessage.com/2015/09/01/tawheed-versus-trinity-which-is-the-true-concept-of-god-part-2/